Wednesday, December 10, 2008

heart rate monitor training revisited

Some thoughts on heart rate monitor training..... I wrote this last year and it is linked on the right. I'd love to hear some thoughts, opinions and disagreements if you'd like to begin a discussion!
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Training by heart rate is a great way to train. There is a lot of information you can learn from a heart rate monitor. More often than not what I see happen with a heart rate monitor is that it slows people down. Which it should.

I met with an aspiring triathlete last week in fact, who is an extremely intelligent person. Try as I might I knew they were not buying the "slow down now, to go fast later." pitch. And I knew where the story would end. Not adhering to training zones, paces. Then burnout, injury and disgust would come next. We talked about base phases, but they believed they already had a base. We talked about the right intensity at the right time; they wanted it all of the time. They wanted to go hard, go fast and right now. Their goal race is in September. This is February.

So many athletes have a terrific work ethic, and the harder, better, faster, stronger theme applies well to them. The biggest challenge I have is slowing them down during training.I have been there myself. So we will cycle through tests. Swim tests, bike tests and running tests. We establish heart rate zones, T times, and V Dots.

More often than not I get this email;"I think my zone 2 is wrong. I am running with a cadence of 90, I am hitting my E pace, but I don't feel like I am working hard enough."

Bingo…. hold it right there. Don't change a thing.

I never have a question about a higher heart rate because no one has an issue with going harder.

Last week. I had the following question from one of my athletes:

If I open Joe Friel’s book, I can look up my LTHR and the table shows the heart rates for each of the zones. Zone 4 appears to be 96% of LTHR. My question really was is 96% accurate for all athletes, all ages. Zone 2 appears to be 85% - 91% of LTHR. Is it possible that for someone else it actually is 80% to 86%?

This was an excellent question. It brings up several good points. First point; Joel Friel's book. Joel Friel is the author of the Triathlete's Training Bible. As my coach says people believe it to be THE BIBLE. It's definitely a terrific resource, but the best coaches and athletes have plethora of resources they pull from. Now I am not arguing that Friel is wrong, his reputation speaks for itself. I am saying that there is more than one way to turn the wheel.

Friel has established a set of heart rate zones based on his theories, calculations, etc. Different people have different methods of calculating zones, and therefore different zones. Many coaches have developed their own zones, and these zones sometimes cross over, sometimes don't.

Below is an example from a very detailed spreadsheet my Coach, Trevor Syversen of TMS Mulstiport sent to me. I wish I knew who put all of this information in one place because it is a fabulous reference.

Take a look at the differences:

Example:

Athlete Data:

Age= 46 Max HR by either using the age predicted or age and gender formulas= 191
Resting heart rate = 58
Lactate Threshold= 170

Now according to Joel Friel the heart rate zones are:

1 65% - 81% 110.5 to 137.7 Recovery
2 82% - 88% 139.4 to 149.6 Aerobic
3 89% - 93% 151.3 to 158.1 Tempo

According to Andy Coggan the heart rate zones are:
1 <>2.5 Hr) road races
2 69% - 83% 110.4 to 132.8 Aerobic Capacity. Endurance paced training rides3 84% - 94% 134.4 to 152 Tempo rides, aerobic and anaerobic interval workouts (work & rest combined), longer (>2.5 Hr) road races

Cycle Coach Ric Stern bases his zones on Max Heart Rate
1 75% - 77.5% 143.25 to 148.025 Endurance Long Endurance 1.5 - 6 Hours
2 77.5% - 80% 148.025 to 152.8 Endurance Core Endurance
3 80% - 85% 152.8 to 162.35 Endurance Tempo Training

Sally Edwards uses Max Heart Rate Predictions
1 50% - 60% 95.5 to 114.6 Healthy Heart Zone
2 60% - 70% 114.6 to 133.7 Temperate Zone
3 70% - 80% 133.7 to 152.8 Aerobic Zone

The Karnoven Formula uses Max HR, Resting HR and Age
1 60% - 70% 137.8 to 151.1 Weight Management Zone
2 70% - 80% 151.1 to 164.4 Aerobic Zone
3 80% - 90% 164.4 to 177.7 Aerobic Threshold Zone

The American College of Sports Medicine uses Karvonen formula of Max HR and Resting HR
1 50% - 85% 124.5 to 171.05 20 - 60 Minutes continuous aerobic activity3 - 5 days per week, alternating days

So to make it even simpler, or perhaps more confusing, just look at zone 2. Again we are not looking for who is wrong or right, we are just looking that there are differences in how to attain, how to measure, and how to set. Just notice that differences exist.

Friel 139-149
Coggan 110-132
Stern 148-152
Edwards 114-133
Karvonen 151-164
ASCM 124-171

Has your head stopped spinning yet? Who is right? Doesn't that seem crazy? Which one to follow? How will you know if you are in the right place? The right zone?

Then begin to add in all of the variations that heart rate training can give you. 10 beats here for dehydration, - 5 beats there because it is cold.It's maddening.

Now…..My husband Curt is a 51 year old male. Triathlete for 20 years. At age 51 he's still kicking around the youngsters in our area. He's a four time National Champion after the age of 45. He's done Hawaii. He's been an All American a hundred years straight. In fact he's on this year's Inside Tri All American list. He's a Long Course Duathlon Silver Medalist.

Curt Eggers does not wear a heart rate monitor. He uses no computer on his bike; he likely doesn’t even know his resting heart rate. Power meter? No thanks. Garmin? Forget it.Tempo runs, sure he times and measures those but goes by the watch on his hand which does nothing more than start and stop.

His big training tools? A Timex Ironman watch and a big dose of Perceived Exertion.Would knowing his LT or his FTP make him any faster? Knowing Curt it'd drive him bananas.

Tell him to run at tempo pace? He finds it. It's in his heart. He knows it. He probably has the keenest ability of any person I know…. to know exactly where he is at all times.

His results speak for themselves.

With all the differences in zones and theories and the mix of perceived exertion, what are we to do?It's one of the reasons I love to train with Pace and Power ;-)

You have to use a combination of things, in my opinion. The largest priority should be given to Perceived Exertion, in my opinion. And there are even a bunch of Perceived Exertion charts out there.

I happen to like the one in Friel's book. For many of my athletes we have created our own simple version as well.

So the answer is not clear. There is no one correct answer, in my opinion. You have to weed though, understand the differences, and see what applies to you. Realize that HRM batteries will die, Power Meters will fail, Garmins won't locate.

HRM have their place. They are excellent tools to help you measure where you should and shouldn't be. They should be used as part of training. Not as the cornerstone.There comes a time when everything shuts off and you are just left with your breath, your own pace, the sound of your own feet crunching through a dirt trail. The sound of the wind and the chirping of the birds.

I can promise you that's what Curt notices every single time he runs.

You know when you are going too hard.

More important than the very most exact and correct zone….. is accepting that easy days are easy. Hard days are hard. And every single day is not hard.More important than which method is correct is understanding the principles of correctly building your season. You begin from the bottom up. You build a strong foundation with slow easy base work. Intensity has a place and a time, but without a foundation to support it, your house will fall down.

You wouldn't build the roof before you built the basement. And you wouldn't call it a house with only 1/2 inch of height on your basement.So start slow, start easy. Tune into yourself, and tune into what's around you. There is a place for heart rate monitoring. There is a place for measuring. Just don’t' get so caught up in the readings, zones, etc., that you forget to look around. Don't get so caught up in the math that you forget why you are out running in the first place.

4 comments:

Damie said...

I am laughing because I read this post of yours a while back and I remember it. I am thoroughly, and I mean thoroughly as in underlining- going through jack daniels book right now. I am seeing things I understand and apply, and things I just thought I understood but really didn't adhere to. I think HR is a good tool. What I really think I like right now is HR combined with v-dot. I am not using HR all of the time, but I like to throw it on once or twice a week to see if my E pace is at a lower HR. Anyways- I don't really have anything to contribute to your good post; just wanted to say that I am starting to believe that every workout should really have a purpose. Hard is hard, easy is easy- something has to give you a guideline for what that means. Unfortunately in the past, I think I was too much in the middle (never hard or easy like I should have been)... or WAY too hard or WAY to easy. Love your posts. xxxooo

Mary Eggers said...

I agree with that Damie.... I think if training with V dot for running you have to use one ot the other. I have had and seen great success with just V dot, because again HR can be so variable!

Laura said...

Haha Damie! I was just going to mention we were talking about you reading the Jack Daniels book last night and talking about each workout having a purpose and knowing what that purpose was.

I'm not a heart rate user, but that's mainly because every HR monitor I've tried has torn me up! Chafing worse than any sports bra or rubbing shorts. I've been trying to figure out a way to monitor HR without putting that stupid strap under my chest! (not much luck, apparently you need to monitor HR near your heart, hmmm..;)

djh said...

My latest comments to CY, since she has decided to pick which comments to post:

CY-What's the matter, my comments hit a little close to home? The insecurity is finally showing itself? You finally bit, the famous temper FINALLY CAME OUT!!!! Too funny. The alleged "saintly" CY finally shows her true colors. Awesome.

Everyone else: 1) you don't know ME, and more importantly, you DON'T know CY either. As for "looking into CY's mirror", that's a rich one. Who'd want her pathetic life? She ought to take a look in her OWN mirror and find out why it is she is such a nasty person. As for KY, that's a joke, he proved to me long, long ago that he is TRULY an ugly person, I have stories upon stories that I could tell. I cannot stand the sight of him, and infatuation with HIM or CY is not a factor,and CY KNOWS THIS, but it's very funny that she wants all of you to think that. CY was unfortunate enough to treat someone like total dogshit many years ago, and then was unfortunate enough to have one of my friends find her hysterically funny blog many years later. We are poking fun at her because as one friend put it, "we'd actually feel guilty, but mean people suck, so we don't!". These two are horribly self-centered mean people who only care about themselves, and if you knew them long enough, you'd figure that out. But the beauty of life is that, if you do get to know them, you WILL figure this out, and all of the carefully crafted facades will come crashing down on the two of them. I suspect it already has in some cases.

As for my husband, YES, he knows, he actually reads CY's incredibly awful blog. And nice guy that he is, he shakes his head and tells me, "man, what an arrogant little bitch!". Many, many people have read this and felt the same way. I think the two posts that got to most people completely torqued were a) the rambling musings and preachings on "what makes a champion", and b) the whole, "look at us, look who cool we are, we VOLUNTEER our precious time for children's cancer." This after treating a family going through that very ordeal like a piece of shit. Why don't you ask her about THAT? She paints this picture of what she wants you to see, and not what's real. So good for all of you, judging something you know NOTHING about!!!! I applaud you for being so happily ignorant.

I just happen to know KY, (unfortunately for me, he was in my life at one time, and if I ever had regrets, that was the biggest!). What that means is I know what he's like and pretty much his motivations in life. That's WHY I am not with him, he made me sick with HIS poison(and my friends and family as well). CY, he can tell you every lie in the book (and I am sure they have been too numerous to count), and that's ok, but know this, he didn't deserve me or my daughter, my family DESPISED him, and my friends MADE FUN of him, because he was such an ass! And since I know how he works, I have a pretty good idea that CY's marriage isn't what she wants you to think it is. And the fact that this is the "comment" that made her depart from her sweet "created" blog life to bitch about how horrible DJH is, it's LOUD and CLEAR that there's trouble in River City.

One of the commenters is correct-I am a decent person, and I don't usually waste energy on any losers that happened to touch my life, past or present. But when those losers treated a dying girl and her family with as much disrespect as these two jokers did, that changes the scene a bit. CY is a mean, hot tempered, immature little troll who was insanely jealous that her then boyfriend was playing her off me when she met him, and she went out of her way to be as rotten to US as possible during the summer that my daughter was DYING. KY did the same until I told him to QUIT CALLING US. Yes, CY, he was CALLING me and telling me horrible things about you. And you married him! I guess better you than any other poor sucker out there. That's karma for you, baby. You reap what you sow.

Get over yourself, CY, and take a good hard look in that "mirror". I would think that the image staring back isn't what you wish it were!

And for the rest of you, when did you forget that you are BLOGGING publicly? Yes, my comments might be mean spirited. (Ironjenny, in your case, you just didn't like that I called you on something...there was no mean spirit in it and you know it, once again, look in your OWN mirror.) But there is no law that says that I can't comment on a blog if it enables comments, and I wouldn't even dream of doing anything beyond commenting on a blog. And as for CY and KY, I will say it again, I don't care if I don't see either of them in this lifetime or the next. (PS..it was I that threatened CY with a restraining order, not the other way around, bet you all didn't know THAT.) If you all don't like comments on blogs that reveal way too much personal crap, don't blog, or don't enable comments. CY, if you don't like it, disable your comments, or better yet, quit boring us with your "I am so much better than you" crap and just go away already. But ahh, you WON'T disable your comments, because then you wouldn't get the ego and self esteem stroking you so desperately crave. Ugh. Get a real life already, CY. Your fifteen minutes are almost up, and then what will you do?